1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:08,000 Tape number 7, an interview with Ms. Noemi Makower is being conducted by Joanna Wróblewska. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:19,000 I would like to go back to the post-war period and ask you how you were able to continue your scientific career after the war. 3 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:34,000 At first, when I was admitted to the Medical Academy in 1946, I was an assistant professor. 4 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:50,000 There were only three of us working at the time. It was a lot of work, several dozen patients a day. It was just the beginning, everyone had some teeth problems. 5 00:00:50,000 --> 00:01:03,000 Later, when the specialised departments were established, I was assigned to the dental prosthetics department. 6 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:10,000 My boss was Prof. Gorczyński from Lviv. 7 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:21,000 Prof. Gorczyński was a very good and decent man, but not very deep when it came to science. 8 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:31,000 I started my work there, it was a stable job, I knew that I would not be transferred. 9 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:43,000 I started to look for a job related to general medicine. 10 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:51,000 I started to work on the dental prosthetics. 11 00:01:51,000 --> 00:02:06,000 I have a lot of work in this field, more than a hundred. I have over 15 doctorates in this field, two doctorates in habilitation. 12 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:22,000 My work was successful, because I introduced the purification of drinking water in Wrocław and other Polish cities, mainly in the territory of the Wrocław Voivodeship. 13 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:31,000 I also got in touch with technical engineers, who were involved in the process of purifying water. 14 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:39,000 At the same time, we were doing research, and that's why we had a lot of research works. 15 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:46,000 A lot of my assistants could later become adjuncts after their doctorates. 16 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:52,000 I have a lot of friends among these people. Some of them became teachers. 17 00:02:52,000 --> 00:03:02,000 My assistant in the dental prosthetics was my teacher, who is now a professor. 18 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:22,000 I will tell you about my work. 19 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:34,000 My work was related not only to the dental prosthetics, but also to other fields of dentistry. 20 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:51,000 It was mainly about preventing tooth decay, which is a very common symptom in people with nervous disorders. 21 00:03:51,000 --> 00:04:03,000 Thanks to the fact that I could manage with foreign languages, I introduced special plates, which are also used in Stockholm. 22 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:10,000 My scientific path was relatively simple. 23 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:22,000 However, I had some obstacles, mainly because I was a Jew. 24 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:33,000 A group of my party colleagues, a very strict group, invited me to a meeting. 25 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:38,000 - What year was it? - The year when all Jews were exiled. 26 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:44,000 - In the 1960s? - Yes, in 1967. 27 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:52,000 At that time my son had left for Stockholm. 28 00:04:52,000 --> 00:05:01,000 - What did they say to you at the meeting? - I remember that I had a short, but very eloquent speech. 29 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:10,000 It was a group of my colleagues from our school, but not from the dental school. 30 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:15,000 I said that the ashes of my ancestors were buried with yours. 31 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,000 I said that I had nothing to be ashamed of, because I was working as efficiently as I could. 32 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,000 My work and the promotion of my assistants proved that. 33 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:32,000 They fired me right away. I had no regrets. 34 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:42,000 At that time there was a Jewish academic youth protest. 35 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:47,000 My son spent some time in a closed polytechnic, because they were protesting. 36 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:54,000 Then he decided to leave as a Jew. 37 00:05:54,000 --> 00:06:00,000 He decided to leave without my consent or my advice. 38 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,000 He went to Warsaw to take care of it. 39 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:11,000 He left as a person who was going to Israel as an emigrant. 40 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:14,000 Just like everyone else. 41 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:20,000 After arriving in Stockholm, he was welcomed by the whole group. 42 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000 It was one of the first groups. 43 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:30,000 First he was in Stockholm, then he passed the exam. 44 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 He was only two years old. 45 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,000 He did it for the third year. 46 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:39,000 Then he passed the exam in Sweden. 47 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Just like everyone else. 48 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:45,000 - Did it have any negative impact on your work in Poland? 49 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:53,000 - Yes, it was a promotion. I was doing my papers. 50 00:06:53,000 --> 00:07:03,000 When I got a positive opinion, a promotion for a lecturer, 51 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,000 they put the papers aside. 52 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,000 The papers were there for a couple of years. 53 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,000 I didn't know why. 54 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:19,000 Later my friends told me that my son had said something in the Ministry of Health. 55 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:24,000 I don't think he said anything, he doesn't remember it at all. 56 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:32,000 The result was that I was a lecturer twice. 57 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:38,000 I was a lecturer and not in Wrocław, but in Łódź. 58 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:43,000 In Wrocław there was a Jewish professor from Łódź who didn't bother me. 59 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:51,000 He thought it was too ambitious and that a young person shouldn't do it. 60 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 I was a lecturer in Łódź, 61 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:03,000 which is still present in Germany since the Jews were expelled from the Łódź cathedrals. 62 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:13,000 So I was a lecturer and before that I applied for a degree in science in Wrocław. 63 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,000 This is what was done in Russia, which wasn't done in Poland later. 64 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,000 So it was twice. 65 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:33,000 A doctorate, a doctorate, a doctorate, and then I had to go to the professor for a public exam. 66 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,000 There were a lot of professors in Łódź. 67 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:48,000 So they were looking at me, literally at my legs, my head, what I was wearing and why I came to Łódź. 68 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,000 Yes, I was a lecturer. 69 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:55,000 It was necessary, everyone had it. 70 00:08:55,000 --> 00:09:02,000 I got three subjects and I had to prepare myself for all three, because I didn't know what I would get. 71 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:13,000 I remember that I was sitting on the line from Wrocław to Warsaw in Puszczyków 72 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:19,000 and I was preparing for this lecture. 73 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:25,000 So I didn't have any obstacles. 74 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:33,000 One obstacle was that they didn't give me a diploma, which I deserved. 75 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,000 So I was lying on the shelf for a few years. 76 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:45,000 And the second obstacle was that personal professor, a Jew, of a Christian origin, a professor from Łódź. 77 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,000 When did you find yourself in Sweden? 78 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:53,000 I found myself in Sweden 10 years ago. 79 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:58,000 Exactly in 1986. 80 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:07,000 In 1983 I got my papers in a very funny way, I can say. 81 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:14,000 Before that I used to come here only from time to time to visit my children and grandchildren. 82 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:19,000 First to visit my children and then to visit my grandchildren. 83 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:28,000 Namely, I came to the Swedish embassy as it was necessary. 84 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:35,000 I was directed upstairs to a man who was in charge of the service there. 85 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:38,000 He was Swedish. 86 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:44,000 And I had a letter from Józef, who wrote to me in Swedish. 87 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:45,000 From your son? 88 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Yes, from my son. 89 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,000 Why and how? 90 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,000 Very briefly. 91 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,000 And he told me that he would get a message in Wrocław. 92 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:01,000 I didn't have time to go downstairs, as I had a phone call from upstairs. 93 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:05,000 I went upstairs and he told me, in English, 94 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:15,000 "You are lucky, because a representative from Stockholm came, read your son's letter and agreed right away. 95 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,000 So you have a permission." 96 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,000 And that's how it was. 97 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,000 I was luckier than Józef. 98 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,000 We'll finish this tape here. 99 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,000 It ends well. 100 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,000 The end. 101 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,000 The end.