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 Taśma 7, an interview with Mrs. Naomi Makawer.

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 Joanna Wróblewska is the presenter.

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 Before we talk about your experiences and your time in Miłosna near Warsaw,

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 I would like you to tell us how and when you left the ghetto and how you found yourself on the Aryan side.

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 When the Germans released us after the second successful escape,

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 when we returned to Zamenhof, it was clear to us that we cannot stay in the ghetto,

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 that we had to escape.

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 Despite the fact that my husband had a wrinkled face, he was changed, he looked like a prince, he was very pale,

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 we decided to escape again.

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 At that time, the ghetto was so small that people tried to escape to the part of the ghetto where there were shops.

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 But there were only shops.

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 Not all the ghettos that existed before, for example the so-called small ghetto, were evicted.

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 The church was evicted, only the priests were allowed to leave on the first day of eviction.

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 And the church was evicted.

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 And now I would like to talk about how we got through.

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 So we joined a group of lunatics who were chasing us, not going, but chasing us towards the small ghetto,

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 because it was no longer there, only a shop.

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 We were chasing them too.

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 A German took the vodka, I don't remember, he took something and let everyone go to the shops,

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 because he knew that one way or another everyone would die.

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 We got separated.

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 And why were these people chasing us?

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 Because there was a rumor that the wagons had been set up.

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 It meant that they would be evicted again.

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 So they chased us terribly.

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 And we separated from this group to Nowolipki, where my two cousins live with their husband,

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 one of them Habas, Engineer Habas.

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 We got there during the period that we experienced in Zamenhof at the beginning.

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 It was a nice, clean room, cleaned by us.

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 There was a bathroom, a good bath, for the first time in a long time.

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 My husband looked like a priest.

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 They welcomed us very warmly.

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 They said, "We were waiting for you since yesterday."

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 Because they knew what was going on.

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 One of our friends found out that we wanted to escape to the other side.

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 Maybe he was 18, but he said, "I'll take care of it."

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 It was that simple and that easy.

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 My husband said, "First of all, I'll take the money for this unsuccessful escape, maybe some things."

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 After all, we had to have some money from the Arab side.

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 And he went back to the ghetto to get the money.

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 With a frown on his face.

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 I heard from this young man that it could be arranged.

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 I was even surprised that such a young man could arrange such things.

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 My husband came back the next day.

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 We went together to arrange it.

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 But he said, "I'll go first, and then he'll come."

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 Because he couldn't go with such a face.

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 I said, "I won't break up with him right now.

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 Either we'll die together, or we'll live together."

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 And I took him in the car.

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 We paid for two people.

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 There were four of us in total.

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 The car had a group pass.

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 They didn't check anyone.

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 It was very cold.

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 A gendarme was standing there.

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 He got 50 zlotys, I think.

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 He was happy because he wanted so much.

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 In a moment we found ourselves close to the hospital of our friend's family.

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 After four days of staying there...

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 Professor Paluch was here.

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 Yes.

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 The young Użykowski came to us.

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 He is now a just citizen of the world.

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 And he was a very passionate person.

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 He was very close to the Jewish nation.

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 He was in Israel.

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 He was an American who had a family in Israel.

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 He gave some money.

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 A dozen or so people went there to visit the most important places in Israel.

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 What was the name of Użykowski's son?

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 What was his name?

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 The 17-year-old boy.

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 Janusz.

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 Janusz.

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 That's his name now.

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 But his father, Feliks Użykowski, played the most important role.

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 Feliks Użykowski was...

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 Excuse me, did you know them before the war?

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 No.

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 You didn't know them at all.

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 Yes.

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 Feliks Użykowski was a disabled person.

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 He was a sergeant in the war of 1920.

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 He received a military duty for the defense of a bridgehead.

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 It was of the highest importance.

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 He had some courses on the field.

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 He was very interested in medicine.

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 Every evening he had a medical lecture.

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 At 9 p.m. we were already free.

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 We could go to the dining room.

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 My husband and I talked there.

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 Excuse me for interrupting, but I would like to know

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 if you were hiding in Miłosna?

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 Were you there as official guests?

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 We were hiding.

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 We didn't have any documents there.

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 Was it a separate house?

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 It was a separate house.

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 No one lived there except for them.

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 But there were Orłowscy.

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 They were Janusz's grandfathers.

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 Mr. Orłowski was an anti-Semite.

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 So he didn't dare to say that we were Jews.

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 It was called that he was a wife's officer.

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 You had to hide.

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 Mr. Orłowski designed two lockers for us.

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 One was right behind the door, in the kitchen.

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 The Germans had a custom of running to the front door.

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 So the lockers were made deep under the floor.

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 There was a box in the kitchen, where a woman used to hide.

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 The bottom of the box was taken out.

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 And the Germans made a very big locker deep under the floor.

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 We had the worst time there.

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 They didn't look for us.

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 They looked for everyone who was alive.

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 They were looking for meat, for Soviet paratroopers.

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 They were looking for Jews.

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 We found out about it from Janusz.

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 Janusz was in the anti-German legion.

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 They were called partisans.

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 He knew that the next day, or in two days, there would be a revision.

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 We went to the cellar together.

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 He wanted to see what it was like.

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 He was 17 years old.

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 There were military maps and pistols.

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 We had everything we could find in the cellar.

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 And there were our memorabilia.

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 At some point, when the Germans were getting closer to the door,

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 we could hear their footsteps, Janusz jumped out.

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 "I want to see what the revision looks like."

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 That's what he said.

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 And when his mother jumped out, the Germans searched him.

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 He didn't have anything with him.

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 He didn't have a winter coat, because he was told to go outside.

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 And there was a pistol in his coat.

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 He didn't want to die, and we didn't want to die either.

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 But I want to tell you about the first day after we arrived.

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 So our relations with the Użygowski state were perfect.

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 We liked each other very much.

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 On the first day after we arrived,

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 we saw huge fields and buildings from the window of the Użygowski's room.

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 And we saw Germans bringing the Jewish family out of the neighboring house.

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 I was looking at Mańka, and he was looking at me.

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 And I said to him, "We'll probably go back to Warsaw."

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 Mr. Użykowski said, "Dr. Paluch has given you to me,

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 and I don't want to give up.

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 You'll be with me for as long as it takes."

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 And we left the guest house after almost a year and a half.

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 Because at night, there were fighting for Miłosna Street

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 between Germans and Russians.

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 The Russians had a tank joint in Miłosna Street,

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 and the Germans were destroying the tanks that were standing near our house.

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 And at night, the roof over our heads collapsed.

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 Together with the glass, we woke up in a sea of glass.

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 My husband had a heart attack, and I treated him because there was no other way.

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 He had swollen legs, but there was nowhere to be.

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 - It was the summer of 1944? - Yes.

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 Only those tall flowers, what were they called?

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 - Yellow, golden. - Sunflowers.

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 They knew about this great secret of our room.

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 They were looking out the window, and no one else knew about it.

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 After saying goodbye to our hosts,

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 we went out to the front line.

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 There was a telephone line,

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 and every now and then, shrapnel and bombs were exploding over our heads.

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 We had to fall, and my husband had swollen legs. It was very difficult.

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 We reached the Lubelska road.

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 On the way, we met a group of Poles, who were moving somewhere.

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 We introduced ourselves.

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 As we had in the documents, my husband told me the Polish name,

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 Goszczyński or Gwiazdowski, I don't remember.

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 He said, "But which Gwiazdowski?"

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 My husband answered,

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 "We will get to the Lubelska road,

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 and a Soviet truck stopped in front of us.

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 It was heading towards Lublin, and it took us there."

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 Were you more afraid of Poles or Russians?

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 We weren't afraid at all. We were happy that we escaped to Germany.

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 We didn't even think about it.

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 It was a special situation.

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 We got to Lublin at the police hour.

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 A guard took us to a room in the cellar,

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 where there were several such people.

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 She gave us something to cover ourselves with.

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 There were a lot of mattresses, but we paid for them.

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 At night, we heard terrible wheezing.

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 My husband was so tired, but he couldn't stand it.

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 He was sick on the back of his stomach.

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 He said, "Emma, I have to take him to the hospital."

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 I said, "What? It's the police hour. I can't leave him here."

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 He took him to the hospital. I said, "How are you going to save yourself?"

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 "I'll tell them I'm a doctor."

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 They weren't Germans anymore.

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 After a while, my husband was active in the Polish Radio in Nasuch.

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 He knew a few languages very well.

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 Later, we got in touch with Warman,

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 who was in charge of the Lublin sanitary service.

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 - Was it Kamil Warman? - Yes.

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 He gave us an assignment to the evacuation hospital No. 62.

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 - In Lublin? - Yes, in Lublin.

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 Later, we moved on with the hospital.

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 It's not part of today's meeting.

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 - It is. - Really?

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 The evacuation hospital No. 62 was a tragic but also joyful experience for me.

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 It was a hospital directly behind the front line.

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 They brought me a sergeant who was wounded in the neck.

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 I was a day doctor then. It was at night.

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 I woke up a nurse. I was shotless.

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 I had an atlas on Saturday. I've never had such surgery.

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 But what could I do? I was spitting blood.

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 I sewed up the vein, looking at the atlas.

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 I cut it open.

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 Then I woke up a man with zero blood, as I said before during Szelin's suicide.

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 He gave me a liter of blood.

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 And the sergeant left. He left wholeheartedly.

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 He wrote to the warden, Rydz-Żymierski,

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 that a young nurse had saved his life.

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 And Rydz-Żymierski came. Two doctors came.

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 No one had a degree.

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 Every officer reported without a degree.

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 What the hell are you talking about?

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 Everyone had no degree.

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 The warden was a captain and the assistant was a lieutenant.

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 That's how I became a lieutenant.

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 Then I received the Silver Cross of Merit.

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 And my husband received the Golden Cross.

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 He was a captain during the transfusion.

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 That's how we fought for a long time.

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 What year was it when Rydz-Żymierski came?

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 It was 1944.

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 We were evacuated from the hospital to Otwock.

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 I don't remember any special experience there.

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 It was a normal work with the wounded from the battlefield.

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 Where did you live in Otwock?

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 It was a family place.

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 It was a temporary place.

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 But then we were evacuated to Gdańsk.

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 There was a real hospital there.

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 Our hospital was built there.

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 The war ended on the way.

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 There were posters.

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 We were very happy.

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 We arrived in Gdańsk.

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 The head of the hospital was a psychiatrist.

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 I don't remember his name now.

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 I think he was Polish.

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 He was forced to do it.

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 The head of the hospital was one of the Poles.

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 His name was Malinowski.

251
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,000
 Not Malinowski, but Malinowski.

252
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,000
 Malinowski.

253
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:55,000
 He asked me to do it. He was a psychiatrist.

254
00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:00,000
 He said, "You will be a dentist in my hospital."

255
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,000
 He was Russian?

256
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,000
 Yes, all of them were Russian.

257
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:13,000
 I went to the dentist's office.

258
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:18,000
 There was only a tripod, a machine and a chair.

259
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
 I asked him, "What's going on with you?"

260
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,000
 He said, "Nothing is going on with you."

261
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,000
 I said, "My doctor was working, so you will be working too."

262
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,000
 So we were assigned to a house in Sopot.

263
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:40,000
 We went to the Black Market Square.

264
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,000
 I bought everything I needed.

265
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,000
 A can, a drill and so on.

266
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,000
 I worked there for a long time.

267
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,000
 After that, there were many other things.

268
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,000
 I don't think it makes sense.

269
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,000
 How did you find yourself after the war as Jews?

270
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:05,000
 Were there any discussions between Polish and Jewish doctors?

271
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,000
 No, there were no discussions.

272
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,000
 When my husband was in the army, in Sopot,

273
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,000
 we were organizing a hospital there.

274
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:20,000
 Gdańsk was close to Sopot and we lived there.

275
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:31,000
 He got a letter from Prof. Hirschfeld from Wrocław.

276
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:37,000
 Prof. Hirschfeld was organizing a medical academy there.

277
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:42,000
 He asked the military commander to release my husband,

278
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000
 who was very much in need.

279
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,000
 My husband was on his military training before the war.

280
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:54,000
 So they released my husband half a year before me.

281
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,000
 I was still very much in need.

282
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:03,000
 When did you move to Wrocław?

283
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:09,000
 My husband moved there in 1945.

284
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,000
 He had a heart attack there.

285
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:18,000
 How did you try to find a family?

286
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,000
 We didn't have a family.

287
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,000
 Fifty people from my family died.

288
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,000
 His beloved sixth daughter died.

289
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,000
 Fifth, I'm sorry.

290
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:36,000
 So who lived in your family apart from your sister?

291
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:43,000
 My only sister-in-law was my aunt.

292
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:49,000
 She is in Warsaw.

293
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,000
 She lived on the side of the army.

294
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:57,000
 She moved to our apartment.

295
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,000
 She had two children at that time.

296
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:05,000
 Her husband's name was Kotowicz.

297
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000
 He looked like a Pole.

298
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:13,000
 But one day she couldn't stand it.

299
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,000
 She told her neighbors that she had to hide.

300
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,000
 They were probably her neighbors.

301
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000
 So she called the police.

302
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:30,000
 Kotowicz was supposed to come later.

303
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:34,000
 He said that he would report to the police station.

304
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000
 And he did.

305
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,000
 He had his own documents.

306
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000
 Mieczysław Kotowicz.

307
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,000
 They looked at him closely and said,

308
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,000
 "You are so stupid that you came here."

309
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:49,000
 "Get out of here as soon as possible."

310
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,000
 It was the Polish Grenadier's police.

311
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,000
 They had to change the apartment.

312
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:00,000
 That's how they managed to survive.

313
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,000
 My firstborn was born in Warsaw.

314
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,000
 Her daughter, who is now forty years old,

315
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:12,000
 is a Holocaust survivor.

316
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,000
 When did you find out that your father was dead?

317
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:20,000
 When did you find out that your father was dead?

318
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,000
 I found out, I'm sure,

319
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:32,000
 I found out only in Sweden.

320
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:36,000
 I found out that he was murdered in Katyn.

321
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000
 But I had a continuous love story with him.

322
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,000
 He told me that he was alive.

323
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000
 And that my mother was alive.

324
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,000
 She whispered in my ear.

325
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,000
 I could feel her lips by my ear.

326
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,000
 She said, "Ema, it's so hard for you to come to us."

327
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,000
 And I said in my sleep, "I would like to live a little longer."

328
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,000
 I was still very young then.

329
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,000
 And my husband encouraged me, he woke me up.

330
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,000
 I was very grateful to him for that.

331
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,000
 That's how it is, that's how it looks like.

332
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,000
 More or less everything.

333
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,000
 More or less everything.

334
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,000
 How was your life after the war?

335
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,000
 How was your life after the war?

336
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,000
 And when did you decide to start a family?

337
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,000
 It was very good,

338
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:35,000
 because in 1946 I got my first nomination

339
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:41,000
 for the senior assistant at the Medical Academy for Stomatology.

340
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,000
 In Wrocław?

341
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,000
 In Wrocław.

342
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,000
 And my husband was an adjunct professor at the University of Czechoslovakia.

343
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,000
 He had two heart attacks in the meantime.

344
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,000
 After those experiences.

345
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:59,000
 And later, a few years after the war,

346
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,000
 he had a severe stomach ache.

347
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
 We were in Rabka at that time.

348
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,000
 And he told me that he was going to die.

349
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,000
 And that I had to take him to the hospital.

350
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,000
 And that's what I did.

351
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000
 To Kraków.

352
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:21,000
 And it turned out that he had a bag of blood from a kidney.

353
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,000
 After those German attacks.

354
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,000
 And he had his kidney removed.

355
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:35,000
 He had that Jewish mark.

356
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000
 He was treated very meticulously.

357
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,000
 To the point that when he had a high fever after the surgery,

358
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,000
 I invited the doctor on duty,

359
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,000
 because I was sleeping there,

360
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:51,000
 to give him penicillin.

361
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,000
 The doctor on duty said that he couldn't,

362
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,000
 because the professor was under the supervision of the boss.

363
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,000
 And I said, "How is that possible?"

364
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,000
 "But he has such a high fever."

365
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,000
 And my husband himself said that he was vomiting, and so on.

366
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,000
 I had penicillin with me.

367
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
 I didn't give up on penicillin.

368
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,000
 I gave him a shot.

369
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,000
 And in the morning the doctor came and said that I did a very good job.

370
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,000
 And he had pneumonia and drenage.

371
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,000
 And then he was brought to Wrocław with that drenage.

372
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,000
 A car came from Wrocław,

373
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,000
 followed by a nurse.

374
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,000
 And there in Wrocław,

375
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:37,000
 he found an invitation in the post office to America,

376
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,000
 to Rockefeller.

377
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000
 And he was treated there quickly.

378
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,000
 It started to go fast.

379
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,000
 It was true.

380
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000
 A year later, it was the second time.

381
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:59,000
 Because they asked for Rockefeller twice.

382
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:04,000
 And then we were in Switzerland.

383
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,000
 My daughter was five years old then.

384
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
 When was the first child born?

385
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
 Exactly.

386
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,000
 My son was born in 1949.

387
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000
 Józef.

388
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,000
 And Jarenka, a year later.

389
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
 But I wanted to tell you,

390
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
 maybe you can experience this in a more intimate way.

391
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,000
 I was, as I said, an assistant,

392
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,000
 and later an adjunct,

393
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000
 in the dentist department.

394
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,000
 And my duty was

395
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,000
 to remove teeth and gums

396
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,000
 at the internal department,

397
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,000
 at the cardiology.

398
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,000
 There was a professor,

399
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,000
 what was his name?

400
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,000
 I will recall it in a moment.

401
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,000
 It doesn't matter.

402
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,000
 And he, his adjunct,

403
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000
 asked for an end,

404
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,000
 because the wall was moving,

405
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,000
 and the patient's head was here.

406
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,000
 There was no chair, just like that.

407
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000
 I did it.

408
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,000
 "Oh, please remove one more."

409
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,000
 Someone was there.

410
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,000
 And he had to move to the bed,

411
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,000
 because he couldn't move anymore.

412
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,000
 He couldn't even move.

413
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000
 He had a root or two roots.

414
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,000
 I did it, he died unconscious.

415
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,000
 After the anesthesia,

416
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
 a good anesthesia,

417
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
 without adrenaline.

418
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:34,000
 So I was pregnant.

419
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,000
 I went to my husband,

420
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,000
 to the microbiology department.

421
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000
 I didn't know about it yet,

422
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,000
 but I was shocked by this death.

423
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,000
 My husband didn't ask me anything,

424
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,000
 he just gave me coffee.

425
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,000
 When I drank coffee, I told him what was going on.

426
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,000
 The next day, I went to Prof. Szczeklik.

427
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,000
 He was a professor,

428
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,000
 a very famous professor of cardiology,

429
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,000
 who lived in the same house as me,

430
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,000
 one floor above.

431
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:06,000
 I said, "Professor,

432
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,000
 why did your assistants

433
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,000
 tell me to perform the last injection,

434
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,000
 when a person is so seriously ill,

435
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,000
 and you are taking care of him?"

436
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,000
 He could have died of defecation,

437
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,000
 I will never forget what he said.

438
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,000
 "But why did I have to perform

439
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,000
 the last injection?"

440
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000
 So I did it,

441
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,000
 and later I had a miscarriage.

442
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,000
 Yes, the first child was born

443
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:42,000
 in 1949.

444
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,000
 Juziek.

445
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,000
 And my daughter was born in 1950.

446
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000
 I think that's all.

447
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,000
 I think so.

448
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,000
 I would like to know

449
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,000
 what kind of children you had,

450
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,000
 when you were little,

451
00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:59,000
 what holidays did you celebrate at home?

452
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,000
 You asked me once.

453
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,000
 I said that only my mother

454
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,000
 went to bed on Sunday

455
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000
 and went to the synagogue.

456
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000
 My father was a socialist.

457
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,000
 But now I mean you and your husband.

458
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,000
 How did you raise your children?

459
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,000
 I don't have any.

460
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,000
 Maybe only Christmas.

461
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,000
 Did your children know that they were Jews?

462
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,000
 They knew,

463
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,000
 but they were baptized.

464
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,000
 Both of my children were baptized.

465
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,000
 They were baptized,

466
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:35,000
 and it was after the ghetto,

467
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,000
 because the Germans took out

468
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,000
 the unbaptized children

469
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,000
 and the Poles gave them away.

470
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000
 Some, no, not all,

471
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,000
 but some did.

472
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,000
 And the unbaptized children

473
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
 were left alive.

474
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,000
 That's why I thought

475
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:57,000
 that it would be better

476
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,000
 to baptize these children.

477
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,000
 We were in a cart by the sea.

478
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,000
 The children were tiny.

479
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,000
 And I told my husband

480
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,000
 that I wanted to baptize them.

481
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,000
 My husband said, "What do you need it for?"

482
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,000
 I said, "You know what the situation is."

483
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,000
 I told him about it.

484
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,000
 He said, "Listen, darling,

485
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,000
 I will live short anyway,

486
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,000
 and you will have children

487
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,000
 under your care.

488
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,000
 Do as you see fit."

489
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,000
 And that's how it happened.

490
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,000
 So the children were already

491
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000
 4 and 5 years old.

492
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,000
 Yes.

493
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,000
 How old were the children

494
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,000
 when they found out

495
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,000
 that they were Jews?

496
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,000
 They knew, of course.

497
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,000
 They knew.

498
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,000
 Yes.

499
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,000
 But their parents were

500
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,000
 great Jews.

501
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,000
 There were no prayers.

502
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,000
 There was nothing like that

503
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,000
 on Christmas.

504
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,000
 The highest holiday

505
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,000
 was Christmas Eve.

506
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,000
 There were gifts for Christmas.

507
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
 And that's all.

508
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,000
 You are disappointed.

509
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000
 We are interrupting now.

510
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000
 Yes, yes, but you are disappointed.

511
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000
 You are disappointed.

512
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,000
 The end

513
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:17,000
 Thank you for your support on Patronite. Please support me on Patronite.pl/en. I'm waiting for your comments. Thank you!