We were talking about your father, and we have come to the end of the year 1943.
Yes.
Can you tell us?
And then he was at home a lot, dad, and I remember, Gwede, that I had a very, very good time in every way.
Because I was not allowed to go to school then, I was supposed to go to high school,
but I was not allowed to go, because we did not have the permission.
Then we would have traveled 18 kilometers, and then they did not allow us to go.
We came in, right?
That's when my fun started, so then I knew that I was yours.
That's when it started, that Jews are not allowed to do this, Jews are not allowed to do that.
That's when, as I remember correctly, it was believed that a teacher would come home and teach us German.
Then she came only a few times, but she did not dare to come because we were Jews.
It was forbidden to do that and that and that, right?
Different things, and then I knew that...
But then I did not think that it was, I had best friends who were Christians.
And I have never heard that they wanted to be with me and that we have done everything together.
We had a good time together, but there was always worry.
What kind of restrictions did you get, or did you get as a child?
What restrictions and what prohibitions were there for you?
No, not then.
Then you only heard that you were not allowed to go to school as you wanted to go.
And then different things, then you have heard and talked about Poland and here and there and there is a ghetto and so on, right?
As I remember.
Then many poor people from Poland came to us.
And then I remember that they took my parents home and offered them dinner.
Or there were also many who did not have bread.
But I have never experienced that.
I have not had it when it was the worst time, when, for example, in '94 or '93 it could be,
that you got, you know, one did not have bread to eat, or dark bread, and we had white bread.
So you always did it in secret.
That my parents said, "No, you can not show and go out and show that you have that bread."
That others should not be suspected.
When did it start to change to much worse?
No, I just know that it got worse when they took us Jews.
No, and my dad said, "Maybe we should flee."
I know that he talked about it.
"No, it will pass, it will not be so serious."
But my dad took it very seriously and we wanted to flee to Budapest.
I know that, but we could not.
What happened when the Germans came to Hungary?
Then it was Easter.
This April, the 20th of April, in my life, I do not like holidays, especially not Easter.
Because it is the bitter that changed my life.
Can you tell us what happened that day?
When Easter was over and my dad was called, he was supposed to be in the military on April 16, 1944.
But he was a worker, because then you did not have Hungarian military clothes.
Then Jews were not allowed to have it.
Then he had civilian clothes, a yellow ribbon and a star.
And it was a work camp.
As it is Easter for us Jews, we had other things, porcelain and everything else.
I remember that we started to pick it up, carry it up in the wind and put it away for the next year.
We had no idea about anything.
But early in the morning, it was probably dusk,
someone knocked on the window or the door and opened it.
There was a German and my dad's friend, who was not a Jew, but he spoke German.
I told him that I had this document that I had found after 50 years, and that if I read it, it says "word for word how it has been".
I told him, and they said that after three hours they would give it to us.
And we had to take 40 kilos with us.
No gold, no money, nothing. Only 40 kilos.
And that was all, and we were supposed to be at the school I had gone to.
It was a very large area, a yard and so on, so we had to gather there.
And then my dad asked, "But I'm single, what am I supposed to do with my family?"
And they said, "You have to go with your family."
And we were already very happy that we were going to be together as a family.
And my mom was quite sick, I don't know if I should hope for that.
She had lung cancer when she was young, but she had been infected by her brother.
At the age of 30, it's very easy to get infected.
Even though they told her not to go and visit him, she still did.
So she got infected.
My mom was already very sick during those two years, as far as I remember.
But they had already caused her to have cancer.
And she cried, because grandma lived elsewhere and we weren't allowed to go and meet anyone.
We weren't allowed to move from our house.
We could only go there on that occasion, but then we met all the relatives we had and friends.
So only doctors, all doctors and pharmacists were allowed to stay that day.
They didn't have a replacement, so many doctors and pharmacists had to stay.
Even though they were Jews.
Because they didn't have enough doctors.
I remember that.
Then we drove 18 km to a ghetto in Berkshals, which I have in my book.
You said that you drove from the school?
Yes, from the school yard.
And all our friends, non-Jews, came to us and asked what we should do.
And they cried. All of them.
It's also in this book that I read.
They cried and didn't want to leave.
They wanted to come to the school yard.
We were friends with the principal and the principal's wife.
She cried and left food for us.
If we needed it, if we didn't have enough with us.
So we came to the school yard.
Was the school yard guarded in any way?
No, not really.
They were guarding it with feathers.
Chandeliers?
Yes.
But they also cried a lot.
When they came to us and locked our door, they left a flowerpot.
It was a Jewish house, with everything.
Many of the Chandeliers cried.
I didn't experience that many Jews.
There were different people.
Was there a German military personnel in the town?
They came to us, but they were very disappointed.
Because they also had great anti-Semitism in Poland and elsewhere.
They had it in Sweden too, but we didn't get along with them.
So they didn't dare to come.
I think it was worse in smaller towns.
How was the transport between the school and the ghetto?
With wagons.
Not by train.
With wagons.
What kind of wagons?
With horses, donkeys and a lot.
How many were you?
I don't know. There were many of us.
It was at least a 70-year-old family.
You were so busy with yourself and your family.
Do you remember how you were dressed?
Yes.
I remember that I got new clothes for Easter.
It was a full-length dress in red and blue.
It had shoulder pads and high-heeled shoes.
I still didn't have high heels.
How long was the journey?
No, it wasn't long. 18 kilometers.
But before we got to the ghetto, we understood what it was like.
There was a brickyard.
We had to lie on the floor and on mattresses.
Those who worked there went to work.
What did the ghetto look like from the outside?
I don't remember much. It was just a part of the street.
It was an interior part of the ghetto.
It was the biggest city in all the areas.
There were many thousands of people from all over the area.
From different places, small towns, everywhere.
There were many thousands of people.
Were you guarded?
Yes. They beat us. It was terrible.
My father had a cousin who worked in the hospital.
She wasn't a fully-fledged doctor.
My father wanted her because the Germans didn't care about young girls.
They took everyone.
My parents were afraid that they would hurt me.
So I ended up in the hospital next to my father's cousin in the ghetto.
I helped the sick people.
I always stood next to her and helped her.
I told her to calm down and that the Germans couldn't come to me.
Did you witness any special events in the ghetto?
No, not really. My parents protected me.
They didn't want me to see what was happening there.
They always made sure that I didn't get hurt.
How was the food?
I wasn't hungry in the ghetto.
My father was there, so he could always buy us food.
We had a good economy.
They took money from us, even though it said that we weren't allowed to take it.
Every day there was something else to be put away.
But we didn't take gold. We left a lot of things at home.
We were afraid because they said that if we took jewelry or earrings, they would take it.
But we didn't dare to take anything.
They said that we would be killed if we didn't do what we wanted to do.
So the real hell began in the ghetto.
We were afraid all the time.
I don't remember how it was. My mother didn't do anything.
They just sat in the bricks. They cooked and hid the food.
I don't know where it all came from.
Did the ghetto kill people?
I'm sure it did.
But my grandmother and grandfather, my uncle's wife and my cousin were with us.
I remember it like it was yesterday when we were evacuated.
We weren't in the ghetto for more than four or five weeks.
Because we heard that they were taking people.
My father was called in from the ghetto.
In the end, he was called in by the military.
We knew where he was going to go. It was called Karsova.
I don't know what it's called in Czech.
That was the center of the German-Polish border.
It belonged to Czechoslovakia.
I have seen a lot of real German SS men on the Polish border.
We were put in wagons and that's where people died.
Inside, it was cramped. There was no toilet, no food.
Older people died in the wagons.
I remember that very well. My father went to Vegas where we were evacuated.
They said that we would have a much better life than we have now.
Because we would work and we would get paid.
Who left these messages?
I don't know who, but people have talked about it.
We didn't know anything about Auschwitz.
Was there a Jewish rat in the ghetto? Did you know about it?
No, I didn't know.
When my parents talked to other widows, they told me not to know too much.
When did the deportation from the ghetto start?
Around May. I think we were among the first to leave the ghetto.
What happened that day?
I don't remember how it was. I only know that we were in wagons.
Was it day or night?
It must have been night, because I don't remember.
I can only see in front of me how I was inside the wagon.
My sister, my mother and everyone else were inside the same wagon.
Grandmother and grandfather. We didn't have that many relatives.
How many people were in each wagon?
There were about 70 people.
Do you remember how many wagons were in the train?
Many, but I don't remember. I only remember that it was terrible.
I couldn't lay my head on my mother's knee.
She made it difficult for me and my sister to lay our heads.
Even my grandmother. They made it difficult for us to sleep.
When we got to the city where my father was in the military,
there was a small window with hangers in the wagons.
My mother said to me, "Clari, can't you look at one side and I'll look at the other side?"
"What if we see dad or any of his friends?"
I started to scream, "Mom, dad is standing there!"
Then we didn't know what to do. We couldn't get out because we were locked in.
Did the train stop?
Yes, the train stopped there because the Hungarians handed over the wagons to the Germans.
That was the border.
My father found us because he asked all the wagons if we were with him.
They probably told him that we screamed too.
He had a spirit of nervousness, not a spirit of drinking.
He had a spirit that if you get a headache or feel sick, don't just leave it to us.
We should help others who are not feeling well.
I remember marmalade, but it wasn't marmalade. It was big square pieces.
And bread and different things.
The Germans gave it to me and he cried. It has been with me all my life.
I have it in front of me.
He cried. My mother stretched out her hand and kissed my mother's hand and just cried.
My father spoke German, so he asked the Germans not to follow us.
He said, "You go to work. You will go to work."
The Germans said, "No."
Then the Germans opened the wagons so that he could say the right thing for us.
The train wasn't that long. Maybe half an hour or so.
Then they closed the wagons again.
I remember my father, Edde, and my mother. But we didn't know where we were going.
We thought we were going to have a better life.
Then we went to Auschwitz.
It was written by Edde, "Work. Power to life."
How long did the journey take?
I don't know. Not many days.
Did the train stop on the way?
Yes, it stopped here and there.
They probably gave us water or emptied the toilet.
But there was a lot of smog. People died in the wagons.
That's why my father left the message that we should clean ourselves.
What did you do with the people who died?
They took them out. We didn't reach Auschwitz yet.
But they didn't take the ones who died.
They kept the dead relatives. They didn't want to leave the dead.
When the train stopped, did you open the doors?
No, just a little bit.
Did you see anything when they opened the doors?
No, nothing.
When we got to Auschwitz, they told us how to behave.
They told us to get off the train and not to take anything from the wagon.
We had to leave everything behind.
Who told you that?
The ones who could speak German and other languages, the ones who worked there.
There were a lot of Jews who worked there.
Was it day or night?
It was day.
It was day when we arrived. It couldn't have been a day before.
When we arrived, they opened the doors and told us to stand in a line of five.
There were five men and five women.
I held my mother's hand and my sister's in the middle.
My sister was on one side and I was on the other side.
I was next to my grandmother, my aunt and a five-year-old boy.
We had to leave everything in the wagon and not take anything.
Just the way we were.
I remember there were cigars in the wagon. I think it was Mengele who had a cigar.
And Einstein.
Another name.
The one who was murdered.
Eichmann.
Eichmann was also there when I arrived.
I remember his face.
How do I remember?
I remember after the newspapers I saw when I survived.
Both of them. I felt it again.
We are going to stop now to change the tape.
Again.
We are going to stop now to change the tape.
Again.
We are going to stop now to change the tape.
Again.
We are going to stop now to change the tape.
Again.
We are going to stop now to change the tape.
Again.
We are going to stop now to change the tape.