I'm here now with David Szpigler, May 20, 1997.
David, you've told us about your marriage.
You and your wife had also survived the camps.
You wanted to leave Jönköping and you had just bought an apartment.
Where was that? It wasn't in Jönköping?
No. I saw an ad in the newspaper about exchanging apartments from Stockholm to Jönköping.
Then I said to Adela, 'You know what? I'm going to answer the ad'
and offer him the move from Stockholm to Jönköping.
And he agreed. I came up, got an apartment in Tallkrogen, three rooms with a kitchen, through Svenska Bostäder.
And what work did you get? You had worked at Norra Hammarsbruk, but what did you get in Stockholm?
I worked at Norra Hammarsbruk and then I worked at Svenska Flaggfabriken.
And then I said I wouldn't work here. I wouldn't just work, I'd look for something of my own.
After a few years, I got that time, I had saved some money, without possessions,
pure cash, I had about 16-17 thousand kronor saved, pure money.
Maybe one gets sick, you never know what will happen.
I bought the first cafe at Palmettegatan 4.
I was a cleaner, I was a headwaiter, I was a cashier, I was a purchasing manager, everything.
I felt pretty good about it. After a year, I changed that cafe, I sold it,
and bought a Cupido at Roslagsgatan 6, a cafe, a patisserie.
That was the time with the gaming machines, lots of young people, I earned a colossal amount of money.
I bought a large villa, six rooms and a kitchen.
I went to Jönköping, bought the furniture that's here, inside, everything.
Someone named Jonsson bought my first sofa from him.
I said, 'I promised you, I'll buy a big one, but you have to send it to Stockholm'.
'Okay, it doesn't matter.'
I did with him exactly as I did before. You get everything in cash, not a single bill or anything on installment.
At that time, if you wanted cash, you could haggle.
I bought my first car from Glowash, a Volvo, also paid in cash.
At that time, I dictated the price, not them, not Volvo. That's how it went.
And so it continued. And then your second child came.
Yes, she was also born in Jönköping.
Yes, your wife, you should say what her name was. Adela Sachs, born Sachs.
And your two children? Frida Marianne, her name is Schwarz. -She is married Schwarz.
She was born in '48 in Jönköping.
Rosi Carola, Nakache. Married Nakache, she was born in '52.
And Rosi Carola lives in Israel.
Did you get any help from any Jewish Congregation?
Did you feel sought out by any biblical congregation?
Nothing. I didn't seek help either.
Was there Wiedergutmachung?
I received Wiedergutmachung.
Your Swedish friends or comrades, have they been interested in what you've been through?
In Småland, yes.
When I'm in Swedish company, it's more that I represented that I am Jewish.
They should know who they're dealing with.
If they want to say something, they should know there's a Jew sitting there.
I'm not ashamed of being Jewish.
But haven't they in Stockholm been interested in what you've done?
I knew that.
Is your Jewish identity today as orthodox as when you grew up?
Unfortunately not, no.
I go to the synagogue quite often.
And on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, I go to Bornstein's session hall.
Unfortunately, he's sick.
As long as I've lived in Stockholm, I've davened Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur at Bornstein's.
You've been in many labor camps and two extermination camps.
What do you think made you survive? How did you manage?
Fate.
I believe in fate.
Your experiences, how have they affected you as a person?
Do you have lingering effects from everything you've experienced?
Physical, psychological?
Initially, it was very psychological.
But today, I still have scars.
In what form?
Sometimes one can have nightmares from the camp.
Is there anything you want to add to your story?
Or is there anything you feel I haven't asked you about?
We had a very large family.
I still have very good contact with my relatives today.
I have relatives spread all over the world.
From France, America, and Australia.
People who left Poland?
One who left Poland and one who was born there, in France.
So you still have relatives despite the experiences in Poland.
David, thank you for agreeing to this interview.
Thank you.
My number in Auschwitz was 135098.
It's the ID card we received immediately after the war, from the British.
It's a medical card we received, and the other is the case.
You should show it to the doctors.
The ID card I received on July 19, 1945.
The ID card and medical card were issued together on July 19, 1945.
That's my great-grandmother and great-grandfather.
How did you get the card?
I got it from relatives in America.
Unfortunately, they no longer live, the Swiss.
That card is my paternal grandmother. I got it from my cousin who lived in America.
That's my sister Cima with her husband. I got it from her friend who lived in Israel.
That's Adela, my ex-wife. I got the picture in 1946.
That's my eldest daughter Marianne and her husband David Schwarz.
It was taken 25 years ago.
That's Rosi and her husband Richard Nackache.
That's my eldest grandchild Michael Abraham. He is 24 years old.
That's Daniel, he is 20 years old, Schwarz.
That's Gabi and Jessica Nakache. Gabi is 20 years old and Jessica is 15.