1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 I'm here now with David Szpigler, May 20, 1997. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,000 David, you've told us about your marriage. 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:16,000 You and your wife had also survived the camps. 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:21,000 You wanted to leave Jönköping and you had just bought an apartment. 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Where was that? It wasn't in Jönköping? 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:33,000 No. I saw an ad in the newspaper about exchanging apartments from Stockholm to Jönköping. 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Then I said to Adela, 'You know what? I'm going to answer the ad' 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:45,000 and offer him the move from Stockholm to Jönköping. 9 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:58,000 And he agreed. I came up, got an apartment in Tallkrogen, three rooms with a kitchen, through Svenska Bostäder. 10 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:05,000 And what work did you get? You had worked at Norra Hammarsbruk, but what did you get in Stockholm? 11 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,000 I worked at Norra Hammarsbruk and then I worked at Svenska Flaggfabriken. 12 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:19,000 And then I said I wouldn't work here. I wouldn't just work, I'd look for something of my own. 13 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:29,000 After a few years, I got that time, I had saved some money, without possessions, 14 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:35,000 pure cash, I had about 16-17 thousand kronor saved, pure money. 15 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:41,000 Maybe one gets sick, you never know what will happen. 16 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:47,000 I bought the first cafe at Palmettegatan 4. 17 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:56,000 I was a cleaner, I was a headwaiter, I was a cashier, I was a purchasing manager, everything. 18 00:01:56,000 --> 00:02:08,000 I felt pretty good about it. After a year, I changed that cafe, I sold it, 19 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:17,000 and bought a Cupido at Roslagsgatan 6, a cafe, a patisserie. 20 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:25,000 That was the time with the gaming machines, lots of young people, I earned a colossal amount of money. 21 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,000 I bought a large villa, six rooms and a kitchen. 22 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:37,000 I went to Jönköping, bought the furniture that's here, inside, everything. 23 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Someone named Jonsson bought my first sofa from him. 24 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:48,000 I said, 'I promised you, I'll buy a big one, but you have to send it to Stockholm'. 25 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,000 'Okay, it doesn't matter.' 26 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:59,000 I did with him exactly as I did before. You get everything in cash, not a single bill or anything on installment. 27 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:03,000 At that time, if you wanted cash, you could haggle. 28 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:10,000 I bought my first car from Glowash, a Volvo, also paid in cash. 29 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:16,000 At that time, I dictated the price, not them, not Volvo. That's how it went. 30 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:22,000 And so it continued. And then your second child came. 31 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:26,000 Yes, she was also born in Jönköping. 32 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:40,000 Yes, your wife, you should say what her name was. Adela Sachs, born Sachs. 33 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:47,000 And your two children? Frida Marianne, her name is Schwarz. -She is married Schwarz. 34 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:53,000 She was born in '48 in Jönköping. 35 00:03:53,000 --> 00:04:02,000 Rosi Carola, Nakache. Married Nakache, she was born in '52. 36 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:07,000 And Rosi Carola lives in Israel. 37 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,000 Did you get any help from any Jewish Congregation? 38 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Did you feel sought out by any biblical congregation? 39 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:24,000 Nothing. I didn't seek help either. 40 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,000 Was there Wiedergutmachung? 41 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,000 I received Wiedergutmachung. 42 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:36,000 Your Swedish friends or comrades, have they been interested in what you've been through? 43 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,000 In Småland, yes. 44 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:47,000 When I'm in Swedish company, it's more that I represented that I am Jewish. 45 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,000 They should know who they're dealing with. 46 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,000 If they want to say something, they should know there's a Jew sitting there. 47 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,000 I'm not ashamed of being Jewish. 48 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:04,000 But haven't they in Stockholm been interested in what you've done? 49 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000 I knew that. 50 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:12,000 Is your Jewish identity today as orthodox as when you grew up? 51 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,000 Unfortunately not, no. 52 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:18,000 I go to the synagogue quite often. 53 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:24,000 And on Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, I go to Bornstein's session hall. 54 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,000 Unfortunately, he's sick. 55 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:34,000 As long as I've lived in Stockholm, I've davened Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur at Bornstein's. 56 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,000 You've been in many labor camps and two extermination camps. 57 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,000 What do you think made you survive? How did you manage? 58 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Fate. 59 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,000 I believe in fate. 60 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:56,000 Your experiences, how have they affected you as a person? 61 00:05:56,000 --> 00:06:01,000 Do you have lingering effects from everything you've experienced? 62 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,000 Physical, psychological? 63 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Initially, it was very psychological. 64 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:13,000 But today, I still have scars. 65 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,000 In what form? 66 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Sometimes one can have nightmares from the camp. 67 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Is there anything you want to add to your story? 68 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Or is there anything you feel I haven't asked you about? 69 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,000 We had a very large family. 70 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,000 I still have very good contact with my relatives today. 71 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,000 I have relatives spread all over the world. 72 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:50,000 From France, America, and Australia. 73 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000 People who left Poland? 74 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,000 One who left Poland and one who was born there, in France. 75 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:06,000 So you still have relatives despite the experiences in Poland. 76 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,000 David, thank you for agreeing to this interview. 77 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,000 Thank you. 78 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:24,000 My number in Auschwitz was 135098. 79 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:44,000 It's the ID card we received immediately after the war, from the British. 80 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:54,000 It's a medical card we received, and the other is the case. 81 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:56,000 You should show it to the doctors. 82 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:07,000 The ID card I received on July 19, 1945. 83 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:22,000 The ID card and medical card were issued together on July 19, 1945. 84 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:33,000 That's my great-grandmother and great-grandfather. 85 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,000 How did you get the card? 86 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:40,000 I got it from relatives in America. 87 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Unfortunately, they no longer live, the Swiss. 88 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:56,000 That card is my paternal grandmother. I got it from my cousin who lived in America. 89 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:11,000 That's my sister Cima with her husband. I got it from her friend who lived in Israel. 90 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:21,000 That's Adela, my ex-wife. I got the picture in 1946. 91 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:32,000 That's my eldest daughter Marianne and her husband David Schwarz. 92 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:40,000 It was taken 25 years ago. 93 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:48,000 That's Rosi and her husband Richard Nackache. 94 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:01,000 That's my eldest grandchild Michael Abraham. He is 24 years old. 95 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:10,000 That's Daniel, he is 20 years old, Schwarz. 96 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:26,000 That's Gabi and Jessica Nakache. Gabi is 20 years old and Jessica is 15.