1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000 Beginning of Tape 2, interview with David Szpigler in Stockholm, May 20, 1997. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:14,000 David, you just said you had returned to the ghetto. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Can you describe how your parents were doing? 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,000 How had living conditions deteriorated? 5 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,000 They had deteriorated tremendously. 6 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:30,000 When I came here, I told my parents and all my friends. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,000 What you received when you entered the workforce. 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:40,000 I saw there was no future. 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 It was nothing. 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,000 You saw no future in Bendzin? 11 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,000 Nothing at all. 12 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:51,000 Can you describe, before you go on, what the ghetto looked like? 13 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,000 Was the ghetto fenced in? 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,000 The ghetto was fenced in, with Jewish police. 15 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:03,000 People went to work, to a tailor shop. 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:12,000 Many military clothes came from the front and needed repair. 17 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:21,000 In the town itself, there were new, manufactured uniforms and civilian clothes. 18 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,000 How big was Bendzin, how many inhabitants could there have been? 19 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,000 60-70,000, purely Jews. 20 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,000 And you said 80% Jews? 21 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Yes, it was 80% Jews. 22 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,000 So conditions had deteriorated drastically and you saw no future? 23 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,000 I saw no future. 24 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,000 But could you leave Bendzin? 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,000 What do you mean? 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:46,000 You saw no future in Bendzin. 27 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:52,000 I couldn't leave Bendzin, I was completely cut off. 28 00:01:52,000 --> 00:02:00,000 I was employed in a tailor shop as a cutter. 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:11,000 I would lay the fabrics on a huge table. 30 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:16,000 And I saw over there where one could steal. I was also in the camp. 31 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:23,000 One had to live, one had to sacrifice one's life to survive. 32 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Of course Jews shouldn't steal, but one had to do something. 33 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,000 It wasn't Jewish property, it was German property. 34 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:47,000 I once came home, I had tied a piece of fabric, a lining, from a suit. 35 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,000 It was about three, four meters. I gave it to father, saying I just found it. 36 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,000 So I found it in town, I said. 37 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,000 I go so many times and find nothing. 38 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,000 I told him what it was. 39 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,000 He didn't want to sell it. I went and sold it. 40 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:13,000 I got a couple of marks for it from a tailor. 41 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:22,000 The worst was when they distributed food with the coupons. 42 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:28,000 The bags were so thick. 43 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:34,000 Each bag perhaps weighed five hectograms. 44 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,000 Really thick paper. They weighed it precisely like medicine, by the gram. 45 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,000 He was a very good friend of mine. 46 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,000 I told him, it must be wrong. 47 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:49,000 That committee sitting there, they are in charge of this. 48 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,000 They must be making a lot of money. 49 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:58,000 They claim fifty kilos of flour. They only sell thirty or thirty-five. 50 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,000 They sell twenty kilos of flour. 51 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:07,000 The paper they claim to sell weighs more. It weighs like gold. 52 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:12,000 That store was right where we lived. 53 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,000 He lived right across from us. 54 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:22,000 I said, that night I'm breaking in. 55 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,000 He said, you're crazy. 56 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,000 You come from the camp where you've worked twenty cubic meters of sand. 57 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Then you're strong in the arms. 58 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,000 Like a real miner. 59 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,000 I kicked it. 60 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,000 I don't know what it's called in Swedish. 61 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,000 It was a lock. 62 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,000 You insert it, and then the lock was in. 63 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,000 A padlock or some kind. 64 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,000 Like a padlock. 65 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:52,000 I took an iron piece, inserted it, and ripped it open. 66 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,000 Then it was done. Free access. 67 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,000 Then there were barrels of oil. 68 00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,000 The oil was like thick oil. 69 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 Black. 70 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,000 We brought a container from home. 71 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,000 And flour. 72 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000 They came in and asked what we had taken. 73 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:18,000 It says in the Talmud that if you steal from a thief, you won't be punished. 74 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,000 That's true. 75 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,000 They steal from you, and I steal from them. 76 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,000 No punishment. 77 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:35,000 I fed my uncles and my family. 78 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,000 So you provided them with food? With flour and oil? 79 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,000 Yes, I provided for them. 80 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:44,000 They haven't said anything. 81 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,000 The supervisor who had trading rights said he hadn't heard anything. 82 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,000 There was a break-in last night. 83 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,000 "I haven't heard anything. I sleep like a log." 84 00:05:54,000 --> 00:06:01,000 "Don't worry and report it to the police, or you're dead," I said. 85 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,000 "No, I won't do anything. I won't report it." 86 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,000 "Then maybe they'll get hungry," he said. 87 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,000 So this was in the Bendzin ghetto? 88 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:22,000 In 1943, it was something in June or July. 89 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:30,000 All Jews had to gather at the assembly point, and they took my parents. 90 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 I couldn't accept it. They took my parents. 91 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,000 I knew someone who was a Jewish policeman. 92 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:41,000 He was a very kind guy. His name was Solek Domb. 93 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Then I asked him. The shifts... The guards change. 94 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,000 Then he said, around such and such a time. 95 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,000 There were no Germans, only Jewish police. 96 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:57,000 I walked up and took my parents by the arms. 97 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:02,000 A Jewish policeman came. "What are you doing here?" 98 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,000 "I'm taking them." "You can't take them." 99 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,000 I hit him, and he bled. 100 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:13,000 So you took your parents from the assembly point? 101 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,000 I hid them in a cellar. 102 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Only Poles working in coal mines lived in the ghetto. 103 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:27,000 Every room had a cellar. 104 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,000 I hid them until they were ready. 105 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:38,000 That guy said after they left, 'Next time, don't take such a job.' 106 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:45,000 'I sacrifice my life for my parents. You won't stop me.' 107 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,000 So this was in the summer of 1943? 108 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:56,000 1943. I told my parents, 'Sooner or later, there will be a liquidation.' 109 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,000 And so it happened. 110 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,000 Were your sisters also in the ghetto? 111 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,000 They were also in the ghetto. Everyone was in the ghetto. 112 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,000 Were they already married before the war? 113 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,000 They were all married. 114 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,000 So what happened? The ghetto was eventually liquidated. 115 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:19,000 Eventually, in the ghetto, all us siblings were together. 116 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,000 We hid it. We had two rooms. 117 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:27,000 We put a cabinet, not a sofa, by the door. 118 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,000 It shouldn't be seen. There were small children too. 119 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,000 Small children can't be told to be silent. 120 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,000 They cried. The Germans came in and took them. 121 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:47,000 For three days, we were there. They took us and sent us to Auschwitz. 122 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,000 Were all of you in the house taken? 123 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,000 All of us. All of us who were in Auschwitz. 124 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:58,000 And my father said, 'Chaim David, you must take care of your brothers-in-law.' 125 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:04,000 You've been in a labor camp. You know what to do. 126 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:11,000 You're strong. You'll manage. 127 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:16,000 With God's help, you shall protect them. 128 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,000 You must never forget your family. 129 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,000 When did he say that? 130 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:26,000 When we arrived at Auschwitz. At the ramp. 131 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,000 Did you know what Auschwitz meant? 132 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,000 We had already heard about it. 133 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,000 It wasn't far from there. 134 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,000 Did you know what kind of camp it was? 135 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,000 Yes, we knew it was an extermination camp. 136 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,000 The end. 137 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:52,000 What happened after your father said that? 138 00:09:52,000 --> 00:10:01,000 There was a selection. They separated women and men. 139 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:08,000 I said goodbye to my mother, my siblings, and my nieces and nephews. 140 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,000 My father and my brothers-in-law all stood together. 141 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,000 A German came with a stick. 142 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:19,000 'Right' 'Left' 'Right' 'Left' 143 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,000 We didn't know what it meant. 144 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,000 'Right' meant young people. 145 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:32,000 'Left' was for the old people, the children. 146 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,000 That's how it was. 147 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,000 Then we arrived at Birkenau. 148 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,000 My two brothers-in-law. 149 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:46,000 I said to one brother-in-law, to Rosenblom and Abramczyk. 150 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:50,000 'I won't stay here for 24 hours.' 151 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,000 "Why?" they said. 152 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,000 "It's an idiotic job." 153 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:58,000 "You have to turn the stapled jacket you received." 154 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,000 "You have to put sand in it and put it on that pile." 155 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,000 "Then you pull it back." 156 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,000 "Idiotic. You do nothing." 157 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,000 "It's meaningless work." 158 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,000 "Psychologically, they want to break you down." 159 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:19,000 In those barracks, it was for horses, a stable. 160 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:24,000 It was a long one, bunks for twelve people. 161 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,000 It was strictly by command. 162 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:28,000 Everyone had to turn to their left side. 163 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,000 Everyone had to turn to their right side. 164 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,000 -It was so cramped. -So cramped. 165 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,000 We got a piece of bread and some tea in the morning. 166 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,000 And a little soup in the evening. That was all the food. 167 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Then I told my brother-in-law, "I'll take the first job they're looking for." 168 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,000 It was no more than ten or twelve days. 169 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,000 I called out before, "We need real tailors." 170 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,000 "Custom work." 171 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,000 "Fine work." 172 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:08,000 "For those who aren't tailors, there's the crematorium." 173 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,000 "They will be gassed." 174 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Even in Bendzin, there was a large garment industry. 175 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,000 Not custom work. 176 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:24,000 -So fast, you could say. -Ready-made. 177 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:29,000 Ready-sewn, not poorly made. 178 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,000 Even they were afraid to go. 179 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,000 I said I wasn't afraid to go. You live once, no more. 180 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:39,000 You don't live twice. Once is enough. 181 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,000 -You signed up for... -Yes, yes. 182 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,000 I took both of them with me. One didn't want to go. 183 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,000 He was very religious. "I can't sew." 184 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,000 "I can sew!" 185 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,000 We arrived at Auschwitz. 186 00:12:51,000 --> 00:13:00,000 It was exactly like Birkenau. 187 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,000 With beds. Each man got a bed with a locker. 188 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,000 You had nothing to put in the locker. 189 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:13,000 We got new clothes. Striped clothes. 190 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,000 "Okay, we're going in." 191 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,000 And there was roll call. Roll call wasn't like in Birkenau. 192 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,000 In Birkenau, roll call could last two, three, ten, or four hours. 193 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,000 It was five minutes. 194 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:33,000 The officer comes, for example, 355. 195 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:39,000 He counted them as they passed the SS. They passed the SS and were told to work. 196 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,000 And who went to work? 197 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,000 My brother-in-law went in the evening. I was to go on the day shift. 198 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:50,000 He came in the morning. 199 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:57,000 Then we got bread, a piece of butter – no, not butter, margarine. 200 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000 A little jam. 201 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000 I swallowed it. It's in my stomach and no one can steal it from me. 202 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,000 From the inside, it's done. I ate everything. 203 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:09,000 My brother-in-law said, "You shouldn't eat it." 204 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,000 "I'll worry about that when it happens," I said. 205 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,000 How far away was the tailor's workshop? 206 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:21,000 In the same barracks. It was in the same building. 207 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:26,000 We didn't need to walk far. 208 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:34,000 On the ground floor, there was a disinfection facility. 209 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,000 Yes, that's right. Those who arrive must do it. 210 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,000 For people or for clothes? 211 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,000 The clothes. 212 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:48,000 They came up to us, so we could do it. 213 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,000 I asked my brother-in-law, "What do you do?" 214 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,000 He said, "I'm a capo. He just fights." 215 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,000 The capo hit you in the stomach. 216 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,000 "You can't hold a sewing needle in your hand." 217 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,000 "I'll fix it." 218 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,000 I came up. 219 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,000 He asked where I had come from. 220 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,000 He came up to me and said, "Where are you from?" 221 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000 "Kleinmangelsdorf." 222 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,000 He had Kleinmangelsdorf, just like a Stockholmer living in Florida. 223 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,000 He said, "I'm from Stockholm." 224 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Stockholm is exactly where he's at home. 225 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,000 He said, "You go to the side. Everyone else goes to work." 226 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:32,000 All my acquaintances from my town felt bad for me, they thought. 227 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,000 That they would beat me to death. 228 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:38,000 I haven't said, because I lied to him. 229 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Then he told me. He had worked there in 1938 or 1935. 230 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000 He had already worked there on the Autobahn. 231 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000 He asked me where I had come from. 232 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,000 I said, "We built this and that." 233 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,000 He said that was right. 234 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:59,000 The same civil engineer, he came with a black coat and a huge hat. 235 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:04,000 We called him "Galor," like a priest. 236 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,000 So you had mutual acquaintances? 237 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:09,000 Mutual acquaintances. He said, "I'm not lying to him." 238 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,000 He said, "You shouldn't work down there, you should work in sorting." 239 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,000 "What is sorting?" 240 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,000 He asked if I was hungry. I said, "Who isn't hungry? I'm always hungry." 241 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:26,000 He gave me an SS-bread, a piece of bread, with a piece of sausage. 242 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,000 He said, "You can take half a bread for my sausage." 243 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:37,000 I came up. It was the old Germans who were Jehovah's Witnesses. 244 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:43,000 And then there was a Jew who was from Holland. 245 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000 He said he was a millionaire in Holland. 246 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,000 He owned a fur company in Amsterdam. 247 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000 I don't remember his name. 248 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000 He was 40 years old. 249 00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:01,000 I saw him go under the table and put on a shirt. 250 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,000 I will never forget if I am to live or when I am to die. 251 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,000 A white shirt. 252 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:13,000 I thought there were a million shirts, why did he take that one? 253 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,000 Then I told my brother-in-law it looked like I missed the roll call. 254 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,000 After roll call, I'll be there soon. 'Where are you going?' he said. 255 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,000 'I have to do something.' 256 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,000 Then he came to a barracks. 257 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:31,000 I think it was 95 or 96. I don't remember which barracks. 258 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:38,000 The boys who worked there were called Volgas. They worked for a commando unit called Volgas. 259 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:43,000 From the sewers, they're going to gas the Germans for this. 260 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,000 They cooked or something. 261 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:50,000 They had to weld with gas, everything. 262 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,000 There were many civilians, Poles, Germans. 263 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,000 They did business with them. 264 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,000 You come in and ask them, 'What do you have for sale?' 'Where do you work?' 265 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,000 'I work in tailoring.' 'Do you have any shirts or pullovers?' 266 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,000 'Yes.' 267 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,000 My father always told me, 'A customer gives you what you need to do.' 268 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:16,000 'You should care more.' 269 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:19,000 'A customer teaches you what to do.' 270 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,000 You have to translate that. 271 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000 'A customer teaches you what to buy.' 272 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,000 He comes and says, 'A blue jacket.' 273 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,000 'You should buy a blue jacket.' 274 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,000 'If he wants it, he should get it.' 275 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,000 'He said he wants the shirts.' 276 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,000 These were people who came from outside the camp. 277 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,000 They worked outside the camp. 278 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,000 They were the ones who wanted to do business with. 279 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,000 They wanted a shirt. 280 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,000 'I have a shirt. How much will you give me?' 281 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,000 So he gave me five, six shirts. 282 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,000 'Yesterday I got ten.' 283 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,000 'You'll get ten days too.' 284 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,000 'I'm going to go and get it.' 285 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:04,000 'You know I'm a supplier.' 286 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,000 'He buys.' 287 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,000 So I tell my brother-in-law: From tomorrow: 288 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,000 'God, do you want me?' 289 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,000 'Are you going to have it?' 290 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000 'It was enough.' 291 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,000 'It will be enough as much as you want.' 292 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,000 'So a shirt was worth ten cigarettes.' 293 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,000 'But you didn't smoke?' 294 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,000 'I didn't smoke at that time.' 295 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,000 'You used the cigarettes for something else.' 296 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000 'I bought bread, I bought something.' 297 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000 'How much did a bread cost?' 298 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,000 'A bread cost four, five cigarettes.' 299 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,000 'A whole loaf?' 300 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,000 'A whole loaf.' 301 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,000 Where did you get a loaf of bread? 302 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,000 It was available. 303 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:48,000 Bakery workers stole them, they worked in... 304 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000 Everything was available. 305 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,000 Whatever you wanted, even currency. 306 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:54,000 Where did you get currency? 307 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,000 All currencies were available. 308 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:03,000 In Auschwitz, there was a commando unit called Canada. 309 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000 That was Canada, where people worked. 310 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:12,000 People came from home, you had to take things from their pockets. 311 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:17,000 They sorted gold to gold, money to money. 312 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,000 Some kept... 313 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000 You worked and also ate bread. 314 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,000 That's what my father said. 315 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,000 If you worked as a baker, you were never hungry. 316 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,000 So you did business with the Canada commando? 317 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,000 No, they weren't with us, they were somewhere else. 318 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,000 They smuggled it in. 319 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,000 You could buy it, there were people who worked. 320 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,000 Where was the Canada commando? 321 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,000 The Canada commando was in Birkenau, it was in Birkenau. 322 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:47,000 And that was in Auschwitz? 323 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Yes, I was in Auschwitz. 324 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,000 So. 325 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,000 That day I bought a shirt. 326 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,000 I said I had ten cigarettes. 327 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,000 I had two cigarettes. 328 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,000 No, I got three cigarettes, my brother-in-law. 329 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:07,000 And at the same time, from Krakow, from Plaszów, comes... 330 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,000 A commando, a man named Roman Fajk. 331 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,000 He was a barrack orderly. 332 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000 That's what he's called in Swedish. 333 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,000 He was internal service? 334 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,000 In Birkenau. 335 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,000 He fetched food, everything. 336 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,000 I immediately became good friends with that man. 337 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000 I say he's honest. 338 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,000 You can't bring the cigarettes with you. 339 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,000 So I know that, Roman. 340 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,000 You'll give it, you'll be my partner. 341 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,000 I steal and you'll get some too. 342 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,000 Okay, we were there together, Sweden until 1945. 343 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,000 Around the same time, my brother-in-law was sick. 344 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,000 He got typhus. 345 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,000 He had to go to... 346 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,000 ...the infirmary. 347 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,000 He didn't come back. 348 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,000 And I was alone. 349 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,000 I didn't know what to do. 350 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,000 Completely alone, nothing. 351 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,000 "Then a man came to me." 352 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:14,000 "He says he met a girl." 353 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000 From my town. 354 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:20,000 And says my sister is alive. 355 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,000 "Which one was it?" 356 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,000 "The youngest, Reisl." 357 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,000 "He knew she was alive, he had..." 358 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,000 "He also worked in Union." 359 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,000 "Union, that's the ammunition factory." 360 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000 "It was with men." 361 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000 "And I asked him, go and ask her." 362 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,000 "I'll send her some cigarettes." 363 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,000 "He wrote, then he appeared." 364 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:49,000 He can't say where he saw her. 365 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,000 And that man was very honest. 366 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Very, he was our customer actually, before the war. 367 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,000 He was from Starnu. 368 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:01,000 And I helped him a lot. 369 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,000 A shawl. 370 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,000 "He could sell it." 371 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,000 I helped him a lot. 372 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:13,000 Then I helped acquaintances from my town immensely. 373 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,000 So I can tell an episode. 374 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:26,000 "When I entered another camp with clothes." 375 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,000 "If one was to exchange." 376 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000 "Then I met a boy who was leaving." 377 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,000 "He had worked in a coal mine." 378 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000 "He came back." 379 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000 "I gave him warm socks." 380 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,000 "Shoes, everything." 381 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,000 "So you helped them?" 382 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,000 "I shared." 383 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,000 "I wasn't selfish, so I had to share." 384 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:56,000 "In Auschwitz, did you meet Roma?" 385 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,000 "In Birkenau." 386 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000 "I saw Roma on the other side." 387 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,000 "You saw them there." 388 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,000 "You mentioned Jehovah's Witnesses, did you meet them?" 389 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,000 "Jehovah's Witnesses were there at the same time." 390 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,000 "They didn't want to talk to us." 391 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,000 "They were much older, they received packages from home." 392 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,000 "Did they receive better treatment?" 393 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,000 "They received better treatment than Jews." 394 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000 "Did you know in Auschwitz?" 395 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,000 "Did you hear rumors about what was happening outside the camp?" 396 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,000 "Nothing." 397 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,000 "About the war, how the war was going?" 398 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:37,000 "We knew there was a youth room in Birkenau." 399 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:44,000 "They worked in the baggage room, the Jews." 400 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:52,000 "And there was an uprising." 401 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,000 "The ones who worked in the crematorium?" 402 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,000 "Yes, we heard that." 403 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000 "Did you hear about medical experiments?" 404 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000 "We heard about that, we knew." 405 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000 "There was a guy from Belgium." 406 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,000 "He was in our block, they took him." 407 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,000 "What did they do?" 408 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,000 "He came back just when he was done." 409 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000 "He was apathetic, nothing." 410 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:26,000 "After a few months, he transformed just like a woman." 411 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:31,000 "He started growing breasts." 412 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,000 "He had been subjected to some kind of treatment." 413 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:34,000 "Yes." 414 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000 "Did you ever get sick yourself?" 415 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,000 "Touch wood, no." 416 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,000 "Those who got sick, what happened to them?" 417 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:47,000 "They didn't want to go to the infirmary." 418 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:53,000 "Because they knew if they went to the infirmary, they wouldn't come back." 419 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,000 "You stayed with Roman Feig?" 420 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000 "Yes, I stayed with Roman Feig all the way." 421 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,000 "All the way, until later." 422 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:06,000 "Was there any, what you heard about besides in the crematorium, in Birkenau?" 423 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,000 "Any other opposition or any kind?" 424 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:19,000 "That's what I remember, it was 1944." 425 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,000 "What happened then?" 426 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:29,000 "Five trucks came to Auschwitz, not to Birkenau, to Auschwitz." 427 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:38,000 "They picked up uniforms with a requisition." 428 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:44,000 "We loaded them, and they didn't fight, the SS." 429 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,000 "With such big whips, 'Louse, Louse, Schnell, Schnell, Schnell, Schnell.'" 430 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:58,000 "We loaded uniforms, female, male uniforms, SS, only SS." 431 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,000 "Then it turned out they were partisans." 432 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,000 "The uniforms." 433 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,000 "They could have been brought into the camp by trucks." 434 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,000 "They must have been perfect, to have obtained perfect or forged requisitions." 435 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:16,000 "The papers, the documents." 436 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:22,000 "And they brought uniforms to use as partisans." 437 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,000 "1944." 438 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,000 "It was 1944." 439 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,000 "When was the camp liquidated?" 440 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,000 "The camp in '45, January '45." 441 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000 "What happened then, can you tell?" 442 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,000 "What happened was that Kapo Ignaz told me, 'We're moving from here.'" 443 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000 "Since you were so kind, I helped him with schnapps." 444 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,000 "What was his nationality, Ignaz?" 445 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000 "German." 446 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000 "He was German." 447 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000 "A German criminal." 448 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000 "He was a green triangle." 449 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000 "He was fat." 450 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000 "But you had good contact with him?" 451 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000 "Very good." 452 00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:03,000 "He treated me like a prisoner when he worked on the autobahn." 453 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000 "I went to the same hell as him." 454 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,000 "They treated him just as we treated them." 455 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,000 "He said they would liquidate the camp." 456 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:21,000 "You'll go with a cart carrying provisions for the Germans." 457 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,000 "A cart, meaning a horse and carriage?" 458 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,000 "A horse-drawn platform." 459 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,000 "Roman and I rode in that cart." 460 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:37,000 "We arrived in Breslau." 461 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,000 "An SS man was drinking with him." 462 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,000 "He was a real drunkard." 463 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,000 "I've never seen anyone so drunk in my life." 464 00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,000 "I've never seen a man drink like that." 465 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000 Was he on the cart to Breslau? 466 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,000 "Yes, he was." 467 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,000 "The two told me they were leaving." 468 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:05,000 "From the transport." 469 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:12,000 "I went to Breslau to our client, Jan Godowski." 470 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,000 "He was angry and said I shouldn't be alone at home." 471 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,000 "The Germans don't want to, I don't trust them." 472 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,000 You mean you looked for Jan Godowski in Bendzin? 473 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,000 "No, in Breslau." 474 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,000 "He lived in Breslau, at our station." 475 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,000 "He didn't want to take me in, he asked if I wanted money." 476 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,000 "I don't know what it is." 477 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:40,000 "Then we went back." 478 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,000 "We went back to the train." 479 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,000 "Then we left from..." 480 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:54,000 We'll cover that on the next tape. This is the end of tape two.